Thursday, November 15, 2007

The Problem with Hillary: A Response

There was some good conversation following yesterday’s post, and I’d like to chime in with some thoughts of my own.

Mr. Antagonist, I agree that we shouldn’t resort to derogatory comments about Hillary’s womanhood. After all, no one would dream of calling Giuliani a greasy Italian or Romney a polygamist or Obama (we all see where the slippery slope goes).

As far as Hillary’s hot or not status, I’m sure no one had any ill-intent. However, to play devil’s advocate, it’s an undisputed fact that a good part of the female population votes based at least partly on looks. Isn’t it a bit of a double standard to say the male population can’t objectively assess and comment upon a female front-runner’s appearance?

I believe all potential presidential candidates should be held to the same high standard and put through equally rigorous tests. These people are in line to become (arguably) the most powerful individual in the free world. Every word they say should be combed over, scrutinized. Every inconsistency, every display of weak character, every gaff should be questioned. It’s the reality they have placed themselves in, and if they’re going to be train wreck in the White House it’s much better to find out before they get there.

Unfortunately the system is broken (clearly Bush slipped through the cracks). The media focuses solely on the one or two front runners, giving the impression that the rest of the candidates shit roses. Then we end up with a situation like 2004, where Howard Dean has been crushed by the media and the Democrats end up with a shlub like John Kerry as their candidate. I would argue that Bush didn’t win that election. Kerry lost it.

Mr. A and Late Night, you guys are funny. Vote the issues…you must be living in some sort of fantasy land where politicians tell the truth and always follow through. You can vote party lines (thus the party’s issues). You can vote individuals (thus character). But a vote for a politician’s issues is a vote for empty promises. Call me a cynic, but in my short time following politics I’ve already come to realize that a presidential hopeful’s campaign issues are about as solid as a hay-house in a sandstorm (imagine that said with a southern twang. It’s more entertaining that way). It’s like the 8th grader runner for class president on the no more homework platform (on a much grander scale). Once they’re in office they’ll quickly realize that their issues were a pipe dream and there are too many roadblocks in place (bureaucracy, budget, special interests) to get a damn thing accomplished.

So how does Zizzle-Zot vote? I vote ideological beliefs. Where the candidate stands on philosophical issues such as ethics and morality informs the positions they’ll take on practical issues such as the use of force, fiscal policy, and a pet issue of mine, education.

In this way I am more inclined to side with P Corcs. We shouldn’t necessarily vote personality, but character is of the utmost importance.

The problem, of course, is that this creates a vast grey area. How do we know that a candidate’s persona in front of the camera truly reflects upon her/his character when no one is watching? What if we agree completely with a candidate’s ideological stance on one issue, but adamantly disagree on another?

As voters, it’s our responsibility to form a personal “map” (lame analogy I know – but fitting) to navigate this hazy zone lacking in absolutes. We must use our discernment and judgment (tools best kept out of the hands of those who refuse to educate themselves, which unfortunately includes most. Does that make me sound like an elitist? So be it.) to familiarize ourselves with a candidate and to determine which ideological issues are the highest priority.

Late Night, you brought up an interesting point when you stated that “If there were two candidates who had the same stances on the issues, and were of equal ability, yet one was a white male and the other was female or a minority race, I would vote for the woman or the minority.”

I recently had a long talk with one of my roommates concerning a similar issue. She had been working at an inner-city school as a substitute student aide for over two weeks. The teachers she was working with loved her, the students adored her, and it seemed like the intervention of fate when a full-time position opened up. She was extraordinarily qualified, hard working and passionate.

But she didn’t get the job. She didn’t even get an interview. Why not? The principal told her that the school was only going to hire minority candidates. At first, I was furious for her. She didn’t even get a fair shot.

My roommate, however, wasn’t even irritated. She felt that a minority could relate to these students in ways that she never could, could inspire these students to rise above their circumstances, and understood that no matter how passionate she was, these students would be better served by an influence who knew where they were coming from.

You’re right on the money, Late Night. Think of the positive impact on society as a whole should a minority or female figure rise to the presidency; an individual capable of inspiring historically oppressed people and serving a community outside of Yale graduates breast fed with a silver spoon (who else loves mixed metaphors?)

Mr. A, I agree that Sarkozy is the man. And by the way, no one has gotten the bonus question right…yet. I’ll reveal the answer on Monday.

Thanks for reading.

On a side note, the rest of today is going to get wild and I’ll be out for most of the day tomorrow, so there probably won’t be a new post. I apologize for the recent inconsistency; I’m working to get things back on track. New post on Monday (it should be interesting).

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

I don't think I know your friend Gruber, and I don't know a lot about the situation, but from what I do know, I call bull spit. I think she is just making an excuse for the institution that didn't even give her a chance. If we, as a nation, truly believe that it isn't about the color of our skin but the content of our character (thanks MLK) then why is this about the color of her skin?

Ever heard of Erin Gruwell? Freedom writers? I'm not saying that she should go out and be an Erin Gruwell, but the same principles apply. The color of your skin shouldn't have anything to do with your desire to reach kids. I'm sure her message and impact could have been equal or greater to whoever they hired if that was truly her passion. But to not even pretend to be fair by giving her an interview... stupid.

Sorry for sounding harsh but I get upset. I also have things to say about the same principles in politics that Late night brought up and Gruber commented on, but have neither the time or energy right now.

Anonymous said...

Just to clarify, I'm in no way coming down on your friend Gruber, I just think the situation is messed up.

If your friend truly feels a person of minority could do a better job then her then I repect that. I didn't mean to sound so harsh when I said she was making an excuse because I don't know her and I don't know how she really feels. I'll I was saying is how it seems to me.

Zizzle-Zot said...

Sounds like an affirmative action debate. I suppose it was inevitable...

Anonymous said...

I know. I didn't want to get into it last week and I still don't really want to, but it seems like there are some opposing viewpoints that could make for an interesting discussion.

Anonymous said...

I will exercise the prefix of my name for research's sake and hit this topic up on the "late night." I have strong opinions but want to articulate them correctly.

Anonymous said...

The debate about Gruber's friend is definitely 2 sided. How fair would you think it was if your friend was the minority? You would be okay with it I would bet (at least more okay). I base this solely on the fact that I have been given interviews in the same manner... not because I am higher qualified, went to bethel, etc... (which may help) But, I am a man(grown boy, call it what you want).

Schools have a lack of male teachers? Yes, so they interview and hire male teachers. (or so they say, still unproven in my case)

Schools have a lack of minority teachers? Yes, so they interviw and hire from minorities.

I think it is fair if, and only if, the person being hired is as qualified.

So this is where I agree with Pat. She should've gotten an interview. But, if her qualifications were less than, or even equal to, the minority candidate... Give the minority the job.


I don't know if this directly ties into politics though. In schools, there are several authority figures (teachers, principal, aides, etc). The children need to look up to and listen to these authority figures. In this case, it is important for children to have a variety of people to confide in if they need to. A young black boy would feel most comfortable talking to a black male about personal issues. (in most cases) Same goes for white girls, and the rest... Having a variety of male, female, white, black, etc. in schools is very important.

In politics... We are putting our trust in one person for four years. We don't have the ability to find some different if we don't like our teacher this term. We can't simply walk down the hall and talk to Mr. Foley instead. Regardless of race, gender, etc. we need to choose who is best.

Anonymous said...

Grub Daddy-O

I have to say that i agree with a lot of the first part of your post, but as for your friend, although it may be ok with her, it's just not right in my book. I mean they could have at least flattered her with an interview, even if they already new who they'd by hiring.

It's one thing to hire a minority for a class room of 30 kids, but to me it's not even comparable to the presidency. I don't see any reason to choose somebody just for diversity's sake. I can see a point if both of the candidates are of equal views, which would never be the case, but to vote based off of race or sex seems crazy to me.

Besides, i would guess that the first black male president is not going to be straight out of the ghetto and poor, so how much can he really relate to oppressed class. Probably no more can he relate to the poor class than i could.

And why would we want to vote on a president who can relate to a smaller class of people than a president who can relate and reach out to the majority?

I dunno...I really don't have time to digest anything in depth so i am just shootin from the hip between interuptions from the boss, but i am against the idea of reverse racism, BIG time.

The real reason i had to post was to make sure that Cassel new nothing happened to his McCuteness.

Love you Cassel Dass!

Anonymous said...

Well I just spent the last few minutes reading the new posting and all of the comments. First of all I feel very proud to have my name mentioned, "Mr. Foley", in Swajac's comment, gave me goose bumps.

I don't know how I feel about the whole hiring someon of a minority over your roomate Gruber. I guess I know that things happen for a reason and I am glad that she was able to handle that the way she did, with a positive attitude. I agree that it can't be evenly compared to someone of a minority elected as president.

I think it is hard for us to comprehend because I can't think of anything to actually compare it to. We have never had a president of that stature and have no idea what it would be like. The fact that the past presidents have been elected from the majority of the people in this nation makes sense for who they have been. I think in time as the minority steadily grows closer to the majority (and it is happening every single year, at some point we will be the minority) then we will see what it is truly like.

I have lost my train of thought and need to go home. I might comment later.

P.S. Swajac, move out here to Rapid City, SD. I can hook you up with a Elementary position. I am the only male teacher in my school, I need another one.

Anonymous said...

I for one want to take a trip to Rapid City to see swajac and "Mr. Foley" teaching their bunzies off!

The Friendly Liberal said...

-Women are traditionally objectified. They are attempting to pull themselves up from the image of being a "piece of ass". Men don't have that problem. Yes, there is a double standard.

-Again, I'm not arguing that Hillary shouldn't be scrutinized to the very last detail, but recognize that this kind of mentality is what turns an election into a disingenuous affair. By granting no sympathy, or any "benefit of the doubt", it forces canidates to play it safe and homogenize their behavior.

Do you really think it's by chance that the front runners in any major election appear to be fake? Look what happens when Obama doesn't wear a flag lapel. Look what happens when Edwards makes a bold statement on environmental policy (a true vision is sidelined by the fact that his family owns an SUV).

We're the reason they kiss babies. We're the reason they can't genuinely express their personality or their opinion. They run the risk of being called anti-American because they choose to not wear a BUTTON! And we let them. We don't call Hannity out on his "attack anything that moves" bullshit. We just take whatever is fed to us (we, as in the public, not this blog).

-Kerry definately lost it. There's a lesson to be learned. Watch your step if your party decides to run on the "I'm not Hillary" platform.

-I'm not really sure how to respond to the next section. I mean, of course you have to cut through the crap when picking a canidate. You can't vote for someone based on a false campaign promises. What I base my vote on is not where they align themselves on certain issue, but by which issues they seem to make their priority. I really do believe that if Edwards was elected he would fight with all his energy to change the system in Washington. You can call that naive, but I think that's worth fighting for. If Clinton is elected, you can bet there is going to be some strong attempts at univeral healthcare. I can't believe you're more cynical than me Grubes. I didn't think that was possible.

-Bring on the affirmative action debate. I'm foaming at the mouth.

-I am inclined to join tomorrow. Give me your number so we can work out the details.

Anonymous said...

My daily fulfillment depends on reading the Zizzle-Zot daily post. Today I must go home sad and unfulfilled.

Mr A,

Yes, women have been objectified, but I don't really see very much effort being put into breaking the "piece of ass" stereotype. I would say there are more women out there building the objectification than breaking it down (the sad part is most of them don't even know what they're doing to themselves). You ever go downtown on the weekend?

On somewhat of a side note... Can anyone give more information/comment on the picture of B. Obama not placing his hand on his heart during the national anthem?

Does he refuse to do that, or was it just one of those things where the picture was taken, he just happened to not have the hand on his heart like the other candidates and it was just blown way out of proportion?

I suppose I could read up more on it, but I'm far too lazy to do that right now. Plus I'm suppose to be working.

Anonymous said...

Pat,

I saw somewhere that the Obama picture was a result of photoshop. don't really remember where, and I don't want to look it up again...maybe on google news?

The Friendly Liberal said...

I checked out Snopes and they say the picture is legit. I think the better question is whether or not Obama was sending a message, or if the camera caught him at an oppertune moment?

I mean, come on folks? Can't we read through this crap? If you think Obama (or anyone for that matter) is anti-American because of some email attatchment, you should have your right to vote stripped away. Patriotism isn't a fan club. Patriotism is about putting forth a legitimate effort to make your country a better place.

I would argue that some of the willing ignorance I see is unpatriotic. Consequently, our efforts on this blog to educate ourselves on various political and civic issues is an expression of patriotism. Congradulations Gruber, you're a modern day Sam Adams.

Also, P Corcs, I completely agree with what you say about women objectifying themselves. This is exactly why we should give respect to the women who don't go down that path and do fight for place at the table. You might not think that Hillary has earned your vote, but can you say that she's earned the right to be taken seriously?

Anonymous said...

Anybody Kucinich fans?

Anonymous said...

Cassel, are you being serious?

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