Apologies for yesterday, folks. Can’t really pass up lunch and a Twins game with the boss man. So, to pick up where we left off…
Big thanks to all who commented (and by that I mean P Corcs, Werd, Joey, and welcome back Late Night, it’s about damn time. Too bad Socrates08 has been MIA. He would’ve enjoyed this one). You all have raised some interesting points on both sides of the issue, and it’s good to see that we have a broad range of opinions on the matter.
Werd, you’re absolutely right to say that alcohol isn’t a prerequisite to good conversation. It’s very possible, and in many ways ideal, to form deep connections with people without the aid of alcohol. In reality, I doubt very much you could build long lasting, meaningful connections if you were only vulnerable while drunk (a fact which undoubtedly has been the downfall of many relationships, families, etc.).
P Corcs and Joey, I think, both raised a question that plays a central role in this conversation. What is drunkenness? Does drunkenness mean being over the limit to drive? Does it mean vomiting, blacking out? Where is the line?
It’s tough because the limit isn’t set in stone, and as Late Night pointed out, it’s far from black and white. Drunkenness varies from person to person, day to day. Personally, I would define drunkenness as P Corcs did: belligerent, uncomprehending, blacked out. I’ve been there a couple times, and I promise that this isn’t the intent of alcohol or the fun of alcohol. It’s miserable, and I aim to never cross the line again.
I know this was a concern for Werd. As we drink we approach that line and once we get there we can’t turn back. He has chosen to avoid that line by never approaching it. I respect him for this choice, but I also respect P Corcs, Joey and Late Night for knowing where that line is for themselves and making the conscious effort not to cross it.
So, without crossing the limit of “drunkenness” (I realize this argument is a little arbitrary since we all define drunkenness by different standards), is it a sin to get a buzz from alcohol? Joey, P Corcs, and Late Night don’t think so, and I’m inclined to agree with them (sorry Werd). I appreciate P Corcs visual of the wedding feast. These people were drinking throughout the celebration, enjoying each others’ company and as a result they ran out of wine, which led to Jesus creating more for them. Jesus didn’t say “no, you’ve had enough.” He said “Here, share in my abundance, receive my blessing, and celebrate.”
Joey also brought up an interesting perspective on this topic. It’s accepted that Jesus drank wine, he was present at the wedding feast mentioned and he was completely human. Is it realistic to imagine that he never caught a buzz from alcohol? (I’ve heard the arguments that wine back then was weaker than it is now, but I say that’s hogwash. There’s no way anyone could know that conclusively.)
I won’t lie and say that I don’t do anything stupid/sinful while I’m drinking. But I’m always doing stupid/sinful stuff. Everybody is. For the most part, the stupid acts I commit while drinking are in fun and love.
Now we get to a real dilemma. A problem that is, I imagine, near the core of Werd’s concerns.
Throughout this conversation we have been speaking of ourselves and our closest friends. We have spent years growing together, bonding by living together, participating in Bible studies, going through difficult times. We all come from stable backgrounds, have developed solid foundations in our faith, have college educations and all in all have our lives on the right track. Because of this, we are able to drink occasionally and make good decisions, without it impacting other areas of our lives.
It’s easy to forget that many people are not in the same position and for many people alcohol is a crutch. They use it to escape the reality and responsibility of the world around them and the results are never good.
What is our responsibility concerning such people? It’s another fine line to walk. If we refuse alcohol we’ll inevitably be viewed as Pharisees. But if we drink, to a certain extent it condones excessive drinking in others. Is it hypocritical to say it’s okay for me to drink, since I’ve got my feet on the ground, while saying others can’t handle the responsibility of alcohol?
What are your thoughts?
Thanks for reading.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
2 comments:
Great Post Late night and Gruber. I think you both had a lot of great points and in a way put a sumation (is that a word) on what we have been discussing. I feel a little bad for Drew, not that i should, but i don't want you to feel like we are ganging up on you, it is just that all of us hold similar viewpoints.
I must admit, with all the drinking talk, the one area that does and has weighed on my mind, the one place where i do find true concern is if i am being a stumbling block for others. In the bible it says that it is better for a man to have a heavy rock tied to his leg and dropped to the bottom of the ocean rather than cause another to stumble.
Those are some pretty serious words and i do not take them lightly. So what then do i do? How will i know for sure if i am causing someone to stumble unless they tell me? I don't know that answer.
I think that is why it is so important in everyday life and especially when drinking to be even more conscience of our actions that we do not cause another to stumble.
I do not believe that the act of me drinking would cause someone to stumble, but on the contrary it might build people up to see that if done responsibly and when not used as a crutch can be a wonderful thing.
I have had multiple experiences where at a party or something and people find out i went to bethel. The first thing they ask is something like this... "your not one of those more holy than though people who condemn me because i am drinking are you?"
How perfect is a question like that to open the door to conversation? I'm not talking having one beer and some conversation and being done, because people notice when people aren't drinking a lot. People notice when you are doing something different than everyone else. What i am saying is stay on the same level with the person you are talking to and get into that deep conversation as the night passes.
That is one reason why i think when done properly drinking should be a stumbling block, but rather a catapult.
My disclaimer is that we do have to make sure we drink responsibly and be aware of our surroundings. There definately are times and places where as Christians we should maybe stop after a couple drinks. But I believe there are also times when there is no reason to stop for a while.
Anyway, there are my ramblings.
PS. Werd, I do highly respect your decision to not engage in drinking very often or very much. I respect that you are following your beliefs and your heart on what you believe to be right. I would encourage you to continue in your way.
PPS. Welcome back late night!
Good posting. We have concluded many things and I feel we have many of the same beliefs. Just to make a few things clear. I do not think it is wrong to drink or even get a so called "buzz" (I can't say either way because I don't really know what that feels like or what it is.) The main thing is your own Godly awareness and self control. Ultimately is it up to you and I know you men are smart, but I also know it is easy to get caught up in the moment.
For me, like you have said, I don't enjoy the taste of alcohol or the cost. So it is easy for me to not have to worry about going to far or getting caught up in it. For me I am working on being more open minded to get out and go to a bar with some buddies and hang out. I just haven't been exposed or hung out with people that enjoyed doing that until college and now this present day.
My main reason for bringing this up is to understand the fascination with intoxication and stop with the blatant joking of being intoxicated. It is basically sinning while being perfectly aware of it. I know I do it as well, we all do, but it makes me feel worse when I knowingly sin. I know we are born sinners and it is inevitable. But when we can control some sins, why not do our best to live a sinless live?
We are held to a higher standard being Christians and I am not saying that you should stop drinking. You need to be an example to other people around you and I think this issue IS black and white. The Bible was put in our hands to help a live our lives. He wouldn't give us a bunch of gray areas to try and justify our selves. In our own hearts we should truly know what it means to be drunk. When you question how much you have been drinking and have a guilty feeling about it, then you have probably drunken too much. It is between you and Christ and if you put yourself in circumstances that are uplifting to Him and help build up your brothers and sisters, then you are doing the good work he intended for you. Now, how you get into those circumstances come from the choices you make.
So brothers, with Gods help and our Christian faith we can live a life with AND without alcohol to bring glory to His kingdom. He has placed us in situations for various reasons and all He wants us to do is our very best. So that one day He can tell us, "Well done my good and faithful servant, well done."
Post a Comment